MUMSCAST
Child Database
A database, called ContactPoint, is being developed to collect information on our children. ContactPoint will include the name, age and address of all children under 18 in England. It will also store information on parents, the childrens' GPs, schools and support services like social workers. Every child will be assigned a number that will identify them so that the authorities can access his records. It is supposed to prevent such tragedies as the death of Victorial Climbie because it would allow for professionals to find out which other agencies are working with a particular child.
However, the Telegraph reports that 'it has emerged that police officers, council staff, head teachers, doctors and care workers will use the records to search for evidence of criminality and wrongdoing to helpt them bring prosecutions against those on the database - in some cases, even when they are older than 30'
Is this really a database that is designed prevent another tragic death and protect us or is it just the start of a form of cradle-to-adult monitoring?
And with all the recent media exposure of critical and confidential data being 'lost' - how safe do we really feel about such detailed information being kept on our children?
You can read more about ContactPoint on the government website - Every Child Matters by clicking here.
56 comments
Erica
Thank god it's NOT in scotland. That's all we need, some idiot to lose the database and it to get into wrong hands ie pedofile, abused parents running away from their x partners.
Social workers and police that can't do their jobs anyway with or withou list.
Not all wrong doings and criminalities are procesecuted and if they are for a couple of weeks and then what they still have all the information they need on our children.
What asshole thought of this being a good idea ????????
dee72
that is a very bad idea like erica said what if someone lose it it had to be a man to think of this i wouldnt like my kids info for people to see!!! lets just hope it doesnt happen
Erica
cheers dee, and yes it would be a bloody senseless man that thought of this
paula c
I have to use this database on a regular basis for work; we already have it up and running in Sussex before it goes national. For me it is invaluable for looking up information on families that have moved into the area. I can see which other professionals are involved with the family and can liaise with them accordingly.
The only information stored is the childs name, address, date of birth and as I said, other professionals involved. Families that are going through crises or are trying to avoid involvement of social services often move about and as a health visitor I need to know who else to communicate with if I am going to ensure the safety of child ren in these families.
This did indeed come about as a result of the Victoria Climbie enquiry. There were lots of different professionals involved with that little girl that had bits of information that were never shared, and as a result she slipped through the net, with tragic consequences. This can never be allowed to happen again and professionals are dutybound to share information.
I'm sure from the training I have had on the database so far, that the national one will contain the same information, so i'm not convinced that evidence of criminal activity will be obtainable.
So from my point of view, I am in favour of the database. I discuss it with every single new mother that I visit and once I have explained the reason for its implementation, nearly all of them think its a positive thing.
Erica
neqarly all is not ALL. Sorry I still don't agree.you have obviously not understood what they rest of us are saying. It may make your job easier but as mothers and where our kids are concerned it does not make our's safer. There are to many idiot's about and you have therefore I feel handed them a key.
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go at you, but I have experience of something similar to Victoria Climbie and it will make no difference.
dee72
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR JOB,YET THERE IS A DOWN SIDE SURELY WHAT IF SOMEONE HACKS INTO IT THAT IS A P [SORRY CANT SAY THE WORD] HE/SHE HAS ALL THE INFO ON OUR KIDS? AND WHAT IF THE DISC GETS LOST!
paula c
I can appreciate your concerns, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. There are always going to be people that don't agree with government policy, that is life isn't it?
As far as undesirable people getiing onto the database and finding out information, with all due respect they would learn as much just by hanging around parks, schools etc. You can see where children live by just walking the streets.
The aim of the database is to ensure the safety of children and to improve communication of the professionals working with them, but there is no 100% guarantee that this will be the case unfortunately. There are lots of other measures in place, policies, guidelines etc in order to protect the welfare of our children.
I can see where you ladies are coming from and I'm not saying you are wrong, I just think it's important to have different sides to an argument!
Erica
I paula c,
I note from you're profile that you are a Health Visitor. I work within Child Protection Section as awell as being a childminder. I have obviously seen and had to deal more with child protection issues than you have as this is my field. That's why I feel strongly about this.
paula c
I was a school nurse for 5 years and have been a health visitor for 4 years, so have seen plenty of child protection cases. I have been to more case conferences than I care to remember. How on earth would you know how much child protection I have had and who out of the two of us has had the most? Plus, what diffference does it make?
First you tell me I do not understand what you are talking about which I found rather patronising, now you are making the presumption that you have had more child protection experience than me. I find your point of view surprising for someone who works in the child protection field.
I was polite in putting my point across before and acknowledged that we would have to agree to disagree.
I am not prepared to get into an argument with you, so this is my last word on the subject.
Tilly x
On a more objective level,,, this data base has positive point to it as well...
Perhaps it could be combined with the nhs in some way to assist children with a specific illness.
In times to come it will detect criminals with greater ease...
Wot could the paedofile gain from information like this..... ??
By the way policemen, social workders, HV (especially Paula) do a fabo job, they just too strectched with feckon paper work....
Tilly x
There is good and bad with every scheme,,, perves and nasties are in the minority to those that will benefit from this scheme.....
That has to be weighed up, whilst protecting our beautiful children, from parents who beat, emotionally abuse, drink, etc etc (who are in the majority) this scheme is better than no knowledge at all.......... So there!!
tracieo
I didn't realise Paula what it ewas exactly and agree if it is a system that helps then why not try it out. I think people like Paula do a fab job and feel advice like theirs is invaluable. People need to calm down here and look at the matter in hand. Well done Paula and Tilly x
woody2801
Here here Tilly!! Having read paula explanation of this database i have to say that I have no problam with it- After all- most of the countries child benefit details etc were lost not so long ago- but you don't see people wanting to stop receiving that do you??? Both sides have an argument- that's the way life works- I think we just need to get a grip and accept other opinions.
clare84
I totaly agree with you guys, and i would like to say paula your a fab person and we all love you on here!!!!!
Tilly total i agree total respect for police social workers and hv's and i agree to much paper works holds them up,and ties them down instead of doing what they are trained for
allybsc
Speaking as a parent who's child is inside the system I would welcome a database that saved me from having to reinvent the wheel each time my child is moved, there has been quite a few times when important info hasn't been passed on and had I not taken it upon my self to make each new set of carers aware of the issues then the result could have been fatal, bring it on I say!!!!
andsbaby
We love you paula :)
I agree that it's a good thing. Paula's right in saying that a person who really wants info about a child, only has to walk the streets.
Tilly x
Crikey we're a good team arn't we!! :)
shelleyb
as a mum of a daughter with problems would have helped no end if everyone concerned had had access to a general site so i didnt have to write umpteen letters and attend several hundred meets and repeat the same stuff over and over which is demeaning for the child!Paula never stop being you ,we all love you!
woody2801
YEY for Paula- Woop Woop!!!! Loves Ya!!!
paula c
Love you guys!
Norma
I am a member of MUMSCLICK who does not often comment or chat, rather I use the site for its information and recipes, I do feel that I would like to comment on this issue. I personally, agree with Erica on this subject. I can also see Paula's point of view too. I don't think everyone has to turn on Erica though, just because she feels very strongly about the subject and appears to be the only one who has commented that does.
allybsc
I can't see anyone turning on Erica, the last 11 post didn't even mention her.
At one point over the last few months I had about 6 agencies all trying to talk to me and my daughter every week about the same things, this register will stop this happening by allowing each agency to see who is involved and therefore not duplicate. It got so bad at one point that my daughter just refused to talk to anyone (therapy fatigue) and still won't 6 months later.
At the moment I am the one who is copying letters and sending them out to the other relevant professionals because information sharing is patchy...apart from the fact that this is a very distressing time for our family...it is very time consuming being the unofficial co ordinator of my daughters case...some agencies are very good at this and some are pants...I need to work as I'm self employed and even tho my daughter does not now live at home I still only get about half the week to earn money so that adds to the stress of it all, if the SS, YOT workers etc could just log on and read chapter and verse it would be so much more efficient...one caveat for me tho would be that I should have access to what they have written...but under human rights legislation my daughter (at 14) would probably have the right of veto to that!!!!!!!
allybsc
I forgot to say that it's very likely that all of this information is collected now and written down on paper, albeit kept at various locations...which to me is at greater risk of being discovered, lost or stolen now...say you were an abusive ex partner looking for your wife or child it would be much simpler/cheaper to pay someone to break into a social workers car or office...but as far as I know this is rare...hackers need a very sophisticated level of knowledge to crack government systems with multiple levels of security and I bet they are more expensive and harder to find that a scroat down the pub who would give it a go for the odd 20 quid or so
paula c
No-one has turned on Erica. I appreciated that people have differing opinions on contraversial topics such as these. But I will not be patronised and have my experience questionned without standing up for myself.
Tilly x
Nobody is having a go at Erica,,, and i object to you saying so,,,, yes all our opinions are valuable and our lovely diplomatic society that we live in enables us to speak our minds,,, we accpet everyones point of view,, whether they are the same or different to our own........ thank you
chimp
I think Paula made a very unbiased and proffesional explaination of what is involved and lets face it no one can change the fact that it will be brought in nationwide so deal with it and move on.
marie
i can see where your coming from Erica,being a mom we want to do everything in our power to protect our children,and i can understand the worrys that this is giving people.But i would have to say that i agree with the data base,i think the good it will do, will outweigh the bad.
Tilly x
In the present political climate,, these schemes are set up to conquer physical/emotional safety amongst our chilren and remain on top of the families when they move etc etc.... how can this be wrong,,, tell me... can anyone think of a better way.....
allybsc
It has been outsourced to CapGemini, they deal with DWP, MoD and other government agencies you would need to be a world class hacker to get past thier security, last time the data was lost it was someone within the government not following procedures, you couldn't store the records of every child in the country on a disk it will be on huge servers.
Tilly x
i meant to put,, conquer physical/emotional abuse (not safety)doh!!!! you've all got me confuzzled about this lol!!
Erica
Thanks norma and dee72.
I was not patronizing you paula regarding experience etc, but you seem to have taken it that way and there's nothing I can do about that. You also know nothing about mine so don't you be patronizing. I am also entitled to my views, the system maybe right for you but not for me. We need to beg to differ.
allybsc
Erica.....when you said the following to Paula..... "I have obviously seen and had to deal more with child protection issues than you have as this is my field" the assumption came across as patronising even if you didn't mean it to be so.
Paula has laid her cards & experience on the table about what she does for a living...why not share you job with us
tracieo
I agree with Ally there Erica, the comments you made did come across as patronising, we know you are child minder but what else do you do in child protection field? This may enable us to clarify your comments.
allybsc
If you would like to read the act?????
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20072182_en_1
Tilly x
I think we all have extremely firm views on this topic, you know what mine are and we must be accepting of others too,,, but we at the same time mustn't make it offensive to anybody else,,, there is no need,,,, come on girls,,, happy thoughts,,
paula c
Erica I wasn't saying you were being patronising about my experience, I was saying you were making the presumption that you had more experience than me, without knowing anything about me. After 17 years nursing in the paediatric field, I feel I have enough experience to be able to put my point across knowledgeably.
I did however find your comment about me not understanding you and Dee's points patronising.
I don't believe I was in any way patronising to you, I certainly value the work that childminders do and couldn't have worked for the last 10 years without mine. If you are happy to share with us the rest of your experience it will help us to appreciate where you are coming from.
I am quite happy to have a fair argument and I repect that people have different opinions, I just don't appreciate assumptions being made.
dee72
hey paula i never said that you didnt understand and i wasnt been patronising all i said was that what if someone hacks in or there is a padeo hacking in i have only left two comments that i dont agree and i wasnt doing assumptions on anyones job so it is rather unfair to say that i am been patronising
paula c
Dee, I was not meaning you at all. None of my comments have been directed at you.
allybsc
I suppose I feel strongly about this cos it effects my life so much...about 5 mins ago I got a call from the unit where my daughter is being held (she has a personality disorder) she is to be moved for the 5th time in 9 weeks due to her violent behavior...I now know that I will have to start the process all over again...meetings, letters...passing on info that often doesn't get through, the people invloved with her case...SS, YOT, police etc... have been fab...especially the police but when she moved to the last place they didn't know (hadn't been told) about her disorder, or her OCD, her aerosol abuse (and gave her a deodorant) and the fact that she has been cautioned twice for carrying a knife...all of these things matter when her care plan is decided, her address has changed so frequently that letters have ended up all over the place and appointments have been missed...they take weeks to rearrange and precious time is being lost...she is hurtling towards 16 when she could check herself out and dissapear and I need her as near to fixed before she gets much older. Her SW is on holiday so the care workers at the unit will have difficulty in obtaining all of the relevant info on her for the next 10 days...I know I'm going to get many calls..which I don't mind as I am still her mum...but if this database is up and running the info would be at thier fingertips and the process would be much smoother for us all.
I've looked at the relevant bit of the 2004 childrens act and I cannot see how the info stored in this DB would benefit anyone else apart form the agencies invloved....and the parents, as for the misuse of data by the authorities all I can say is...if you've nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.
dee72
ok lov but your last comments said that you didnt understand my views i give have a lot of respect for anyone doing this type off work it must be hard, and so is the topic. i think we all have to be so opened minded and i think we r getting all lost some were.
Tilly x
Ally, well said,,, we should all listen to you as you have first hand experience from the other side of the professionals... well done.. and good luck.
allybsc
cheers chuck...it just keeps on getting harder...how I've not lost my marbles I'll never know..I suppose it's the support of my friends, family and my other lovely kids that keeps me going xxxxx
paula c
Oh no! I have just written a long response and it has completely disappeared!! I have a headache now and can't be bothered to write it all out again!
Tilly x
lazy fecking bones paula!!!
allybsc
Just had a call from the new unit and suprise suprise...they knew...well...not very much at all, paperwork in transit!
woody2801
Oooh- this has caused some fights eh?!!!!
Erica & Norma- who are you- i don't believe we've been introduced- this is a nice site- where everyone gets along- maybe you should start afresh x
paula c
Right, I'm drawing the line under this one now! Erica and Norma, come over to the cafe one day and say hi and I'm sure you'll be made very welcome.
Enough now.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Tilly x
:)
woody2801
I wasn't being nasty you know!
paula c
no-one thinks that mo
Ela
Wow I’m starting to wonder what this conversation is about? Does it matter who said what or who thought what was said? The most important thing should be that we put our children first. I am very fortunate to have two healthy children who have not had to rely on any medical or social systems to be in place to look after them and hopefully I will be spared this.
I do worry that we are all policed so much any way, with all of us being watched by cameras on a daily basis, and yes I agree that it is a huge worry for any of this information to fall in the wrong hands. It would be great to be able to lead private lives and not have to be “watched”, however I also believe that anybody with something to hide will manage to do so regardless of which system might be in place.
We need to take responsibility for our own children and just continue to do our best in the best way we can.
allybsc
funny... I just typed a fairly well researched piece about how we are all spied on all of the time...and by whom...but when I hit submit it vanished...crap!
dee72
i totally agree with you ela is this becoming a nanny state we all love our children and have VERY strong views with this!
MUMSCLICK
We notice that a few of you have mentioned you have lost a comment you have typed. We will look into this and can only think of two possible reasons - either it is too long (we haven't had such long comments before so haven't yet experienced this) or it took too long to type and your log in timed out. We'll try to find out what is happening.
Thanks for understanding, MUMSCLICK.
paula c
prob the length of time taken tp type, knowing me! SO frustrating though!!
mandalou
I think everything said is all relevant to everyone. There should be no problem that we are worried about our children on all levels.
People are watching always, outside, online whatever!